07/29/94: many by Delphi, | Category: Delphi - OSK Applications | 9 comments - (Comments are closed)

many

88915 29-JUL 18:49 OSK Applications
many
From: BOBROGERS To: ANYONE (NR)

Although I have been a subscriber to Delphi for a while I am a new visitor
to the FORUM of the Delphi OS-9 area. I have previously been a subscriber
to Compuserve, GENIE, and BIX. Delphi seems to me to be the best deal
currently.

My system is a Hazelwood QT20x, with 2.5 meg of ram, 30-, 60-, and 245-meg
hard disks, 720-k 3.5- and 5.25-inch floppies, a SyQuest 44-meg removable
disk hard drive, four modified Heathkit H-19 terminals, an Anchor Patriot
2400-baud modem, Panasonic dot-matrix and HP LJ4P laser printers, and a
(censored) PC, plus a cheap PC lap-top. The H-19′s are modified for umacs,
with more function codes on the function keys. I bought the QT20 in January
1988, and have it rack-mounted with other equipment. My old computer is a
Technico, based on the TI TMS 9900, still working. (Yes, that is four! So
I am an EE.)

Here is my accumulated list of questions, comments, and problems:

1. I am having problems with booting from a hard disk having 512-byte
sectors. The QT20 won’t do it. I bought the latest boot ROMs from
FHL, but they don’t do it either. When I dissassembled the ROMs I
found references to the number 256, but nowhere any 512s. It seems
to me that one possible difference in the later ROMs is that the
boot will try to find a 256-byte-per-sector drive on the SCSI bus,
and will fail if it does not find one. I have noticed the system
booting from the SyQuest (not /h0)! I want to retire the two small
hard drives and use the one big one. Dissassembling on this machine
is no easy task. I learned on a PDP-8! It still amazes me what could
be done with 4-k of ram and a 32-k hard disk.

2. Will the Teac dual floppy drive work properly with the QT20?
I haven’t found out whether or not the new Teac will work with 720k
5 1/4″ disks or only the 3 1/2″ size for 720k.

Which current tape backups will work with the QT20? I am currently
using a SyDos 44-meg removable cartridge hard drive for backups.
Will the cheap tape drives intended for connection to the floppy
controller work? What about software? Or must I find a SCSI model?
What about the SCSI DAT? FHL says the old Teac tape cart drive works
but I haven’t seen one available. From what I have seen MicroWare’s
backup software may not be strictly SCSI compatible.

The SyQuest drive exibits a curious behavior. Using FHL’s fbu one
must press after about 22 meg of backup file, indicating
another floppy disk inserted, and fbu will do about 20 meg more.
I have discovered that OSK provides only about 47 entries for
file segments, and this is exhausted after about 22 meg. You can use
one of the PD file utilities to look at that – I forget which one.
I’ll probably move the SyQuest to my other (censored) machine when
I find a better backup device for OSK. I did have a lot of trouble
formatting the SyQuest carts.

3. Does any one have a print spooler for OSK? It seems almost a scandal
to me that MicroWare would ship a multi-user system with no print
spooler, and let users mangle each others print jobs! I am working on
a print utility to print one, two, and four pages per sheet on the
laser, and will upload it when I am satisfied with it. Maybe I can
make it spool also! I think spooling would involve a common data area
the way conf (below) does.

4. Has anyone else tried a new HP LJ IV-P with the QT20? I have had
trouble with the parallel port driving the laser; a serial port works
sort of OK, and maybe it is just as well to use the serial port for OSK
and the the parallel port for my other (censored) system. However, the
laser cannot keep up at serial speeds above 2400, despite XON and XOFF!
And not perfectly at 2400 – drops a character sometimes. More trouble
with OSK? Maybe there should be hardware control CTS/RTS for serial
driving the laser?

Using the parallel port the laser prints only a few characters and hangs.
If one operates the printer on-line switch several times during the print
job you can get it to print the whole page. Seems like this must be a
problem with the ACK signal from the laser not being accepted as an
interrupt by OSK – too narrow, too fast, wrong timing? I have not
‘scoped it yet.

In brief, OSK doesn’t work well with my beautiful new HP LJ 4-P. Of
course it works perfectly with the unmentionable system!

5. I downloaded TEX from Delphi a while back but have not been able to
get it to work because I can’t make any fonts. Makefont says it
can’t find the basefile. It made the basefile OK, and it is there with
ewr permissions. Any one else had trouble? Where are the files supposed
to be? I have tried several places. I had to modify the makefont.b
program from what I got by downloading; makefont.b does work, but
metafont (by another name) does not. (Even with full path names.)

6. TEX will need a “dvi2lj4p” driver for my new HP LJ IV-P 600dpi laser.
I’ll write it if I can find enough information. Or has someone done
this or planning to do it? TEX to a 600dpi laser should be excellent!
I want to print the TEX and METAFONT manuals!

7. I saw somewhere that OSK software for a CD-ROM drive exists. I have
been delayed on this project because I didn’t want to pay for the
higher-priced SCSI versions of CD-ROM drives, and bought a cheap
(not SCSI) drive for my other (censored) machine. I have bought several
of the Prime Time Freeware (largely UNIX) CD’s. I had been working on
talking to the SCSI bus for a 9-track tape drive using a NCR controller
board, but stopped when a power supply problem damaged the NCR, and
I could not justify the expensive repair-exchange. It waits for me to
figure out what is wrong with the NCR board. I wrote a bunch of software

for my Kennedy and DigiData 9-track tape drives, and it was partially
working as long as the NCR board was working; and I was going to upload
it except for a possible problem with about 6 lines of assembly code
which I got by dissassembly and lifting from another program.

8. Along the same lines, what about page scanners? I believe that some
available scanners (for MacIntosh?) connect to the SCSI bus. We will
need drivers, which shouldn’t be too hard to write. I have the SCSI-2
document from Global. But what about OCR software? Has any one seen
OCR software written in C for UNIX?

9. What experience has anyone had with the newer high-speed modems?
I am waiting for enough reasons to justify a 32bis modem with
automatic protocol negotiation, such as USRobotics. But modem
technology is changing so rapidly! It has seemed to me that Zmodem
has been a better deal than 9600 baud, mostly because some hosts do not
seem able even to keep up with 2400, let alone a higher speed, and
the Zmodem protocol for downloading files by using larger blocks and
not waiting so often for the receiver to respond via satellite, makes
for faster downloads. I suspect that most telephone traffic is handled
via fibre optics now anyway. One of the AT&T trans-continental fibre
optics trunk cables runs through our front yard (easement.) Besides,
for just talking to Delphi, who can type at 960 characters per second
anyway!

I have seen somewhere that the ne
w high-speed modems may require hardware
(not XON/XOFF) control for full operation. OSK on my QT20 does not
monitor RTS/DTR/CD &c. See next item.

10. I am also concerned with the Carrier Detect signal from my modem in
answer mode for log-in as a remote user. OSK does not concern itself
with a loss of carrier, and if anything happens on the line the remote
user may not be able get back in because the host OSK monitor may be hun
g.
Bad, bad OSK! Yes, I know about the carrier loss signal available in
c, but I have not figured out yet how to implement it.

11. It continues to annoy me that OSK Version 2.4 has been available
to everyone else for several years, but not yet for the QT20. I am
told that it has ANSI C. Although I have downloaded them I do not
have GNU C or C++ working. I need help from a better software guru
than I.

I did receive version 2.3, but conf, working on 2.2, does not work
on 2.3, and I haven’t figured out what changed in the C compiler’s
or OSK’s handling of a program common data area from 2.2 to 2.3. We
could use a “wall” utility.

12. Has anyone been able to get Peter Dibble’s software for accepting
PC formatted disks to OSK, in the OS-9 Insights book. I typed the
whole thing in and tried to compile it. No goot! Was this for the
CoCo?

That’s enough for now! I look forward to comments from anyone. HELP!

Dr. Bob Rogers (BOBROGERS)

9 comments to many

  • pucc_unknown

    88919 29-JUL 22:18 OSK Applications
    RE: many (Re: Msg 88915)
    From: DSRTFOX To: BOBROGERS (NR)

    Whew! Dr. Bob, I sure wish I could help you out of this! Not many people run
    the old QTs as personal systems though. Some of the people here should be able
    to help some… especially Joel Hegberg on the C questions (he programs on an
    MM/1). The CD-ROM drivers were written for an MM/1 also… maybe Joel can get
    you a source. Welcome to the OS-9 SIG!!

  • pucc_unknown

    88922 29-JUL 23:12 OSK Applications
    RE: many (Re: Msg 88915)
    From: SAUSAGESAM To: BOBROGERS (NR)

    .About your modem question. I just bought a US Robotics modem for my CoCo3
    . It’s a 14.4k modem. Got it for about $140.. I don’t have any flow control
    being used and it works just fine and dandy. If there’s a big program, I can
    call into delphi direct and download it with my CoCo at 1200 cps. If I use an
    IBM to download it with ZMODEM then it goes at about 1700 CPS

  • pucc_unknown

    88923 29-JUL 23:22 OSK Applications
    RE: many (Re: Msg 88915)
    From: MRGOOD To: BOBROGERS (NR)

    Yikes, that was a big message you left there! Sort of too big really.

    ANyway, in terms of spoolers, I have an MM1 with OSK V2.4 and it came
    with a pretty powerful spooler.

    Hugo

  • pucc_unknown

    88925 30-JUL 00:48 OSK Applications
    RE: many (Re: Msg 88915)
    From: MITHELEN To: BOBROGERS (NR)

    Whoosh.. long message/list that was… I’ll try to answer some of
    you questions here (I filed the message off for downloading and can try to
    findout other answers later)

    Let me startout with the modem/serial port problem with no DCD or RTS/CTS
    handleing… This MAY be a problem in the driver you have, or the perticular
    UART the QT20 uses… (BTW, I’m not specifically familiar with your hardware
    setup, just working from my general OS-9 knowledge) You should contact
    FHL (Frank Hogg/FHOGG here on delphi) and see if the the hardware is
    capable of supporting these signals… if so, and he doesn’t have noew
    drivers that support them, the task of adding the support shouldn’t be
    too much… The Drivers on my MM/1 support all modem signals on at least two
    of the ports, so it can be done.

    Don’t know of anyone useing the “cheep” floppy type tape systems on any
    OS-9 systems… You can find great deals though on 1/4″ 250 meg Archive
    Vipers though (a friend of mine just got a used one for 125$ shipped)

    In order to use a CDROM, you really need the CDFM (I think that is the name)
    module, which is a CD File Manager… Someone is working on this for the MM/1
    from what I heard. When it becomes available (Through Blackhawk Enterprises)
    you could inquire on getting it through them (I don’t think it would need
    modification to work on you specific hardware, but you might need to modify
    the scsi drivers)

    Welp… my memory is fadeing on what else you asked about, so I’ll cut it of
    here… It seems like a lot of you questions/problems pertain to a lack of
    specific support from FHL pertaining to your hardware… I think there
    was someone else on my BBS that had the same system as you, if I can figure
    out who it was, I’ll ask him to get in tough with you through Mail.

    Paul Jerkatis – SandV BBS (708)352-0948: Chicago Area OS-9 Users Group
    UUCP: amiserv.xnet.com!vpnet!sandv!mithelen …or… mithelen [at] sandv [dot] chi [dot] il [dot] us
    Internet: MITHELEN [at] Delphi [dot] com

  • pucc_unknown

    88935 30-JUL 13:10 OSK Applications
    RE: many (Re: Msg 88915)
    From: EDELMAR To: BOBROGERS (NR)

    **** For Hugo (MRGOOD) (message 88923)

    > Yikes, that was a big message you left there! Sort of too big really.

    Well, it was big and my answer is even bigger ! I’ve been hard pressed
    with work lately and responding to Dr. Bob is giving me a breather.

    Dr Bob,

    > 1. I am having problems with booting from a hard disk having 512-byte
    > sectors. The QT20 won’t do it. ….

    You said you were not running version 2.4 of OSK but an earlier one. The
    prior versions of RBF only supported a single sector size, 256 bytes. In
    order to support 512 byte (or larger), the driver and bootrom had to resort
    to ‘trickery’. The driver would be set to read and write 512 byte sectors
    to the HD but receive and/or send 256 bytes to the bus. The first 256 bytes
    were handled and then the second if needed (or the reverse order if you were
    interested in the second half of the 512). Care must be used in defining
    the sector to be written/read. The preceeding was accomplished successfully
    by most OEMs. Similar code has to be put in the bootrom. I assume you
    booted from another device, formated and loaded the files you want onto the
    512 byte/sector HD (including making a bootfile for that drive). You’ll have
    to get back to Hazelwood/FHL for a correct bootrom or, write and burn one
    yourself. The bootrom doesn’t use RBF so it doesn’t have any restrictions.
    If you can’t find reference to 512 (or 511) in the bootrom code, I’d suspect
    the bootrom. BTW, RBF in version 2.4 and later of OS9 supports logical
    sector sizes from 256 bytes to 32768 bytes in integral binary multiples
    (256, 512, 1024, etc.).

    > 2. Will the Teac dual floppy drive work properly with the QT20? ….

    Ask FHL.

    > Will the cheap tape drives intended for connection to the floppy
    > controller work? What about software? ….

    These drives are designed to work with the 37c65 series of chips and to
    use either the Quick 40 or Quick 80 format. I don’t know if they can be
    made to work with a 1772 (or similar) chip. Software will be available
    for these drives one of these days. This is an in-house project running
    as a background task with a very low priotity.

    > …. From what I have seen MicroWare’s backup software may not be strictly
    > SCSI compatible.

    MW’s backup software was designed specifically for SCSI tape units and, with
    one limitation, has been quite reliable in that service for many years. I
    have one customer who is running several VME systems; MIZAR and MOTOROLA.
    One dates back to around ’86 or so and he’s still running either version 2.0
    or 2.1. The tape back up works reliably and the tapes produced are inter-
    changeable with the other systems even though they are running later versions
    of OS9 – up to 2.4. If there are problems, they will be found in the driver
    which is the responsibility of the hardware OEM.

    The limitation I mentioned is that a given file may not span more than 4 or
    5 backup medias. This really isn’t a problem considering the large size
    tapes available but if you try to back-up to disks, the maximum file size is
    limited. I don’t remember whether this problem occured with ‘fsave’ or
    ‘frestore’.

    > 3. Does any one have a print spooler for OSK? ….

    Yes, MW does have one as do several other providers. I think there may be
    some in the databases here and/or on CIS.

    > …. I am working on a print utility to print one, two, and four pages per
    > sheet on the laser, and will upload it when I am satisfied with it. ….

    Sounds real good – I would be interested in such a utility. Will this be
    like ‘enscript’ on UNIX?

    What is ‘conf’?

    > 4. Has anyone else tried a new HP LJ IV-P with the QT20? I have had
    > trouble with the parallel port driving the laser; a serial port works
    > sort of OK, and maybe it is just as well to use the serial port for OSK
    > and the the parallel port for my other (censored) system. However, the
    > laser cannot keep up at serial speeds above 2400, despite XON and XOFF!
    > And not perfectly at 2400 – drops a character sometimes. More trouble
    > with OSK? Maybe there should be hardware control CTS/RTS for serial
    > driving the laser?

    I’m using a HP LJ IV+ with my SYSTEM IV’s (68000 @ 16 MHz) and SYSTEM V’s
    (68020 @ 25/33 MHz) as well as ‘my other (censored) system’ running OS-9000.
    One of the IVs goes to the printer via the serial port at 38400. The other
    machines go through an automatic parallel switcher (but I have fed them
    directly – occasionally I have problems with the switcher). The serial port
    uses a 68681 and does provide CTS and RTS.

    > Using the parallel port the laser prints only a few characters and hangs.
    > If one operates the printer on-line switch several times during the print
    > job you can get it to print the whole page. Seems like this must be a
    > problem with the ACK signal from the laser not being accepted as an
    > interrupt by OSK – too narrow, too fast, wrong timing? I have not
    > ‘scoped it yet.

    Assuming the chip (68230?) is OK and your cable is good, it sounds like a
    software (driver) problem. How does one of the cheapie dot matrix printers
    behave?

    I’ve not had problems with any laser printer nor have any of my customers
    reported any – many different brands are being used. I have had and customers
    have reported problems with dot matrix printers – this involved dropping
    an occasional character. I have been unable to reproduce consistantly the
    problems reported or that I had. Nor, was there any commonality as to
    brand or model. I ended up with 2 drivers – one looks for the printer ready
    signal and the other doesn’t. One or the other has always solved the
    reported problems.

    > In brief, OSK doesn’t work well with my beautiful new HP LJ 4-P. Of
    > course it works perfectly with the unmentionable system!

    Well, as I tried to point out, the problem isn’t with OSK but with the
    driver.

    > 5 & 6 Re TEX ….

    Can’t help you but if get a driver written for the 4+ (or 4P) I’d like to
    try it.

    > 7. I saw somewhere that OSK software for a CD-ROM drive exists. I have
    > been delayed on this project because I didn’t want to pay for the
    > higher-priced SCSI versions of CD-ROM drives, ….

    CD-I (RTOS) is probably what you’re referring to. The drivers could be
    modified to read conventional CD’s. Also, Carl Kreider is writing (or
    has written) a CD-ROM driver.

    > 8. Along the same lines, what about page scanners? I believe that some
    > available scanners (for MacIntosh?) connect to the SCSI bus. We will
    > need drivers, ….

    I’ve started working on software for a page scanner. Since this is an
    in-house project, it is a ‘back-ground task with a very low priority’ .
    For now, I use a FAX machine to do my scanning – crude but adequate for
    now.

    > …. But what about OCR software? Has any one seen OCR software written
    > in C for UNIX?

    I haven’t but if you find some, please let me know.

    > 9. What experience has anyone had with the newer high-speed modems? ….

    I’m using only 14.4, v.32bis, etc. fax modems both internal and external.
    Serial ports are set at either 19200 or 38400. I’ve had almost no
    problems with BBSs at 9600 – DELPHI is fine at 9600 and CIS has 14400.
    I agree that for on-line conferencing, etc., 2400 is OK but it’s hard to
    beat 9600 and y/zmodem for up-downloading. For large files on CIS I use
    14400 and their ‘B’ protocol. For 14400 on CIS, use 1-800-544-3095 -
    there is a hefty surcharge.

    > 10. I am also concerned with the Carrier Detect signal from my modem in > answer mode for log-in as a remote user. OSK does not concern itself
    > with a loss of carrier, and if anything happens on the line the remote
    > user may not be able get back in because the host OSK monitor may be hung.
    > Bad, bad OSK! Yes, I know about the carrier loss signal available in
    > c, but I have not figured out yet how to implement it.

    This is not an OSK problem but rather, a problem with the driver written
    by the OEM. In fact, you don’t need CD to hang up. Most modems can be
    forced to disconnect by the settings of &D and &Q. If CD isn’t supported
    by the driver, the _ss_dcoff() and _ss_dcon() functions are useless. And,
    there are other ways to handle the information.

    > 11. It continues to annoy me that OSK Version 2.4 has been available
    > to everyone else for several years, but not yet for the QT20.

    GRIN!

    I understand the more recent machines from Hazelwood/FHL (the TC-70 and
    the KIX) still come with 2.3; 2.4 ‘is a-coming’ .

    > I am told that it has ANSI C. Although I have downloaded them I do not
    > have GNU C or C++ working. I need help from a better software guru
    > than I.

    Version 2.4 still comes with the K&R Compiler from most OEMs. However,
    most also offer ULTRA C (the ansi compiler) as an option. We, (DELMAR CO)
    offer ULTRA C to our customers at a very low price. The regular price is
    $1295.00, the same as MW’s price. BTW, according to MW’s docs, you must
    have version 2.4 of OSK to use ULTRA C.

    Re GNU C – I’m not sure 2.5 Megs is enough memory for it and I think (might
    be wrong) it requires version 2.4 of OSK. Might check with one the GNU gurus
    here or on CIS.

    > 12. Has anyone been able to get Peter Dibble’s software for accepting
    > PC formatted disks to OSK, in the OS-9 Insights book. I typed the
    > whole thing in and tried to compile it. No goot! Was this for the
    > CoCo?

    I assume you’re referring to the file manager listing at the end of the
    book, the answer is yes – several people have. Changes were made to his
    code and the driver was modified but the end result worked. Peter’s
    listing ‘leans’ towards GMX’s drivers. It ‘kinda’ assumes using a 37c65
    chip. I suppose it could be modified to handle the 1772 driver/chip
    but this would be quite a chore and you could not use high density disks.

    Ed Gresick – DELMAR CO

  • pucc_unknown

    89487 21-AUG 23:45 OSK Applications
    RE: many (Re: Msg 88915)
    From: AJMLFCO To: BOBROGERS (NR)

    Whew!,
    I don’t remember the question number but I have been
    using a Zoom 28.8kbps modem (v.FC) for a while. It
    DOES require hardware handshakingto achieve any reasonable
    throughput, which I believe you will find true for all
    of the newer modems. I run the Kix\30 at 38.4 or 19.2k.
    One really needs 57.6k or higher to effectively use the
    power of one of these! I, too am still at OSK 2.3, a sore
    point for sure! IS FHL/Hazelwood still in business?

    Allen Morgan

  • pucc_unknown

    89514 23-AUG 21:53 OSK Applications
    RE: many (Re: Msg 89487)
    From: JEJONES To: AJMLFCO (NR)

    > IS FHL/Hazelwood still in business?

    As far as I know, it is–FHOGG recently posted something about some remaining
    Sculptor packages (I don’t recall which version), so you could send him some
    email and find out from the person who should know if anyone does.

    Opinions herein are solely those of their respective authors.

    Clipper Chip: Big Brother Inside

  • pucc_unknown

    89567 27-AUG 07:05 OSK Applications
    RE: many (Re: Msg 89487)
    From: BROWN80 To: AJMLFCO (NR)

    Yes FHL is still in business. Hazelwood has had some problems, but 2.4 and
    3.0 are still being worked on.

    John Brown

  • pucc_unknown

    89534 24-AUG 21:18 OSK Applications
    RE: many (Re: Msg 89514)
    From: NIMITZ To: JEJONES (NR)

    Hazelwood is in business. I recently heard from a local OS-9er who is dealing
    wiht them….