10/01/94: Problems with XY/Z by Delphi, | Category: Delphi - OSK Applications | 40 comments - (Comments are closed)

Problems with XY/Z

90174 1-OCT 12:15 OSK Applications
Problems with XY/Z
From: TIMKIENTZLE To: ALL

I’ve been continuing to work on XY and Z. To date, I’ve heard almost
nothing from people using them. What problems have you had?
What points in the documentation are unclear? Is anyone using
them at all?
– Tim

40 comments to Problems with XY/Z

  • pucc_unknown

    90193 3-OCT 04:30 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90174)
    From: EDELMAR To: TIMKIENTZLE (NR)

    Tim,

    Haven’t had a chance to really exercise your new versions of XY and Z.
    Don’t expect to get to them for a couple of weeks.

    I did try to download your new TEX stuff. First attempt was at 14400.
    Got 2,143,232 bytes of the latex_tar.gz file and then error’d out. Time was
    1 hr 11 minutes. Wasn’t able to successfully download the 2 files following.

    This morning I logged in at 9600 and was able to successfully download
    latex_tar.gz, tar and gzip using XY. Time for latex_tar.gz was 1 hr 13
    minutes. Works out to about 5158 baud.

    Ed

  • pucc_unknown

    90196 3-OCT 18:57 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90174)
    From: MITHELEN To: TIMKIENTZLE (NR)

    I’ve used xyz a few times…So far, I can’t recall any perticular problems
    in the transfer part, alhough, I have noticed, that if frorked from
    a shell (S) in sterm, and you are at the bottem of the screen when you
    start it, it will whipe out the transfer stats line when it finishes (ie. you
    need to put in an extra CR or two to scroll the screen after it is done..)

    Paul

  • pucc_unknown

    90197 3-OCT 19:09 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90174)
    From: JOHNBAER To: TIMKIENTZLE (NR)

    Tim,

    Been using the Ymodem-G side to download from a doz BBS
    that’s local to me.. Works every time. It does do some
    hand shacking first, then down comes the files.

    Will get back to you later after I do some uploading
    and see how that goes Tim.

    Haven’t tryed the x/ymodem yet, as I saw your interest
    in the ymodem-g side of it. So far so good.


    John -

    < Posted with Ved 2.3.1 & IX 1.2.0 >

  • pucc_unknown

    90256 8-OCT 22:41 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90197)
    From: TIMKIENTZLE To: JOHNBAER (NR)

    Well! YModem-G is more popular than I thought it would be! I guess
    a lot of people trust their modems more than I do.
    – Tim

  • pucc_unknown

    90255 8-OCT 22:40 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90196)
    From: TIMKIENTZLE To: MITHELEN

    Gotcha…. (scribble, scribble, “extra CR before finishing…”)
    will do. Any more suggestions, shoot them my way…

  • pucc_unknown

    90266 9-OCT 20:39 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90255)
    From: DIGIGRADE To: TIMKIENTZLE (NR)

    > Gotcha…. (scribble, scribble, “extra CR before finishing…”)
    > will do. Any more suggestions, shoot them my way…

    Come to think of it there is a problem that is annoying me lately, but
    not because of XY/Z. Using Sterm on Delphi, Delphi seems to send a code at
    one time or another (maybye going into mail) that the window interprets as
    transparent characters on. Then when I ESC-S to get a shell and “z;display 7″
    the file % update (wich I really like) writes over itself making it a garbled
    mess. How can this be avoided? I know it’s something Delphi sends me because
    Iv’e ESC-S and fixed it with a display code and it creeps back again.

    Dave

    —————————————————————————–
    | “If you do not veer off, I shall…blow my brains out.” – Spock’s Blooper |
    | -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Posted Via InfoXpress -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- |
    —————————————————————————–

  • pucc_unknown

    90272 9-OCT 21:22 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90255)
    From: DBREEDING To: TIMKIENTZLE (NR)

    > Gotcha…. (scribble, scribble, “extra CR before finishing…”)
    > will do. Any more suggestions, shoot them my way…

    While we’re giving hints …. I think I mentioned it before, but I’ve
    had a little problem of losing the dload if I have screen pause turned on,
    and the screen pauses.. If you don’t already do anything with the OPTS,
    would it be a hindrance to _gs_opt, save it to restore on exit, then turn
    off pause? I think it would be a help.

    — David Breeding –
    CompuServe : 72330,2051
    Delphi : DBREEDING

    *** Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 ***
    ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^

  • pucc_unknown

    90267 9-OCT 20:39 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90256)
    From: DIGIGRADE To: TIMKIENTZLE (NR)

    > Well! YModem-G is more popular than I thought it would be! I guess
    > a lot of people trust their modems more than I do.
    > – Tim

    I allways manage to get line noise from somewhere.

    Dave

    —————————————————————————–
    | “If you do not veer off, I shall…blow my brains out.” – Spock’s Blooper |
    | -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Posted Via InfoXpress -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- |
    —————————————————————————–

  • pucc_unknown

    90274 9-OCT 22:19 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90267)
    From: DBREEDING To: DIGIGRADE

    > > Well! YModem-G is more popular than I thought it would be! I guess
    > > a lot of people trust their modems more than I do.

    > I allways manage to get line noise from somewhere.

    Is your modem not error-correcting? I wouldn’t use -G with a non-correcting
    modem, but with E-C modems, I’ve been fairly successful with my local BBS.

    I still tend to use ZModem most of the times, however.

    BTW.. Last night I had a funny occurrence. I tried Z for the first time
    here and dloaded a file. At the end, suddenly, Z started again (From the
    menu, it appeared to be only one file.. Anyway, the thing seemed to stick
    for a while, I think I hit CTRL-C, then suddenly Delphi seemed to be
    receiving my logon, Getting my Handle, then my password, of course responding
    with error messages.. Apparently Delphi was sending it to itself, because
    I use STerm, manually logging on. I first thought it was sending my capture
    buffer, but my password was not even in that file, so I don’t know what was
    going on.

    — David Breeding –
    CompuServe : 72330,2051
    Delphi : DBREEDING

    *** Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 ***
    ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^

  • pucc_unknown

    90276 9-OCT 22:57 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90266)
    From: KSCALES To: DIGIGRADE

    Dave -

    > Using Sterm on Delphi, Delphi seems to send a code
    > at one time or another (maybye going into mail) that the window interprets
    > as transparent characters on.

    Sounds like Delphi is sending you the sequence “ESC < " ($1B $3C) which
    is the GFX code for setting transparent mode (needs a parameter: $00 is
    off; probably any non-zero would be on).

    This coincides with the VT52 sequence to set ANSI cursor mode. Perhaps you
    can eliminate this by changing your terminal type in Delphi. (Sorry, I
    don’t recall the Delphi commands for doing this — I usually traverse
    the Delphi maze by trial and error… or let InfoXpress do it for me .)

    Cheers… / Ken

    ————————————————————————–
    Ken Scales Delphi:KSCALES Internet:kscales [at] delphi [dot] com CIS:74646,2237

  • pucc_unknown

    90281 10-OCT 15:47 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90266)
    From: GREGL To: DIGIGRADE

    I think DEC Mail sends either ESC ( 0 or ESC ) 0 when entering mail. I don’t
    remeber what they are supposed to do, off hand, but I’ve got a VT102 manual
    at home if you really need to know. Anyway, try one of those to see if it
    does the same thing in a plain window.

    — Greg

  • pucc_unknown

    90282 10-OCT 16:00 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90276)
    From: GREGL To: DIGIGRADE

    I just checked and the specific sequences I see (VT102 emulation) are

    ESC )0 ESC (4l ESC )0 ESC (4l ESC =

    The l character is a lowercase ell. I had forgotten about the ESC = sequence.
    If you are using VT52 emulation, you might try VT102 emulation to see if
    that helps.

    — Greg

  • pucc_unknown

    90286 10-OCT 20:53 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90276)
    From: WDTV5 To: KSCALES

    Hummm, I’ve seen that too Ken, only not on this coco. But when I capture
    the stuffs with a “vlt” script on my amiga, there sure is. It puts my
    amiga in the BOLD text mode, adding a pixel to the width of any vert lines
    in the character. I(‘m not sure that its supposed to, but then “vlt” is
    supposed to know all about vt-100/220 codes, or even tektronix stuffs
    as its used a the Stanford Linear Accelerator labs to make terminals
    out of all their amiga’s. Nice proggy, docs could use some help tho.
    Cheers, Gene

  • pucc_unknown

    90287 10-OCT 21:13 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90281)
    From: MRGOOD To: GREGL (NR)

    I have an MM1. Whenever I hop into Delphi mail, the font changes
    from plain to bold face.

    When I leave, it changes back to plain font.

    Hugo

  • pucc_unknown

    90292 10-OCT 23:40 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90287)
    From: WA2EGP To: MRGOOD (NR)

    Which windio are you using. I never had that happen with any terminal program
    I’ve tried unless I’m downloading something and the d/l craps out but Delphi
    keeps sending. I should ask which term program are you using?

  • pucc_unknown

    90293 11-OCT 00:05 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90287)
    From: KSCALES To: MRGOOD (NR)

    > I have an MM1. Whenever I hop into Delphi mail, the font changes
    > from plain to bold face.
    >
    > When I leave, it changes back to plain font.

    Hi, Hugo -

    I went in tonight and checked. I changed my Delphi terminal type
    (under Using Delphi; Settings; Terminal) to VT52, then went into Mail
    via the OS-9 Forum.

    The data I captured included:
    ESC = ($1B $3D) –> VT52 Alternate Keypad upon entry into Mail
    (This is also the KWin code for BoldSw; expects a parameter
    of $00 for off; non-zero for on)
    ESC > ($1B $3E) –> VT52 Numeric Keypad upon exit from Mail
    (Can’t find this sequence documented for L2Win nor KWin.)

    So, sure enough, that will set your terminal into Bold mode.

    You could either change your Delphi setting to a safe one (“Unknown”), or
    switch to a terminal program that handles the sequences safely (that is,
    one that doesn’t pass the VT control sequences directly to the screen).
    Better yet, get one that does a good job of VT100 emulation, and change
    your Delphi terminal setting to VT100…

    Cheers… / Ken
    ————————————————————————–
    Ken Scales Delphi:KSCALES Internet:kscales [at] delphi [dot] com CIS:74646,2237

  • pucc_unknown

    90298 11-OCT 03:10 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90287)
    From: DIGIGRADE To: MRGOOD (NR)

    > I have an MM1. Whenever I hop into Delphi mail, the font changes
    > from plain to bold face.
    >
    > When I leave, it changes back to plain font.

    Same here, sometimes it doesn’t change back for me.

    Dave

    _____________________________________________________________________________
    |Dave Pellerito – | Posted using InfoXpress |
    |Digigrade Productions – Digital Services | with an MM/1 running OSK |
    |”I can handle more than one thought, more than|____________________________|
    | one task at a time, so why should I use a computer that doesn’t?” OS9/OSK |
    —————————————————————————–

  • pucc_unknown

    90299 11-OCT 12:59 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90287)
    From: GREGL To: MRGOOD

    More than likely the problem is caused by the MM/1 not properly implementing
    one of the VT52/VT100 control codes or escape sequences. I do not know
    what you can do about it unless you can find the offending string and
    have the terminal program strip it. I do know one of the sequences sets
    the keyboard to application mode.

    Making this short because I am using a stupid version of Telnet that
    sends control character garbage when I use a non alphabetic character.
    Sheesh.

    — Greg — Life Sucks then you get a Crappy Telnet g

  • pucc_unknown

    90297 11-OCT 03:09 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90274)
    From: DIGIGRADE To: DBREEDING (NR)

    > Is your modem not error-correcting? I wouldn’t use -G with a
    > non-correcting modem, but with E-C modems, I’ve been fairly successful
    > with my local BBS.
    > I still tend to use ZModem most of the times, however.
    >
    > BTW.. Last night I had a funny occurrence. I tried Z for the first time
    > here and dloaded a file. At the end, suddenly, Z started again (From the
    > menu, it appeared to be only one file.. Anyway, the thing seemed to stick
    > for a while, I think I hit CTRL-C, then suddenly Delphi seemed to be
    > receiving my logon, Getting my Handle, then my password, of course
    > responding with error messages.. Apparently Delphi was sending it to
    > itself, because I use STerm, manually logging on. I first thought it was
    > sending my capture buffer, but my password was not even in that file, so I
    > don’t know what was going on.

    Interesting. Never happened to me before. :)

    Dave

    _____________________________________________________________________________
    |Dave Pellerito – | Posted using InfoXpress |
    |Digigrade Productions – Digital Services | with an MM/1 running OSK |
    |”I can handle more than one thought, more than|____________________________|
    | one task at a time, so why should I use a computer that doesn’t?” OS9/OSK |
    —————————————————————————–

  • pucc_unknown

    90300 11-OCT 13:03 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90293)
    From: GREGL To: KSCALES

    Why in the world did they use ESC = for Bold switch? Seems to me they
    could have used an extension to the ANSI color change sequence to speficy
    bold — assuming Bold is not already defined in the PC ANSI sequence –
    and not have a problem when running true VT52/VT100 emulation. Oh well,
    such is life.

    — Greg

  • pucc_unknown

    90304 11-OCT 22:46 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90293)
    From: MRGOOD To: KSCALES

    Actually, the boldface isn;t a problem really. I just made note
    of it in forum since others were discussing it. I do plan to get
    a better term program though.

    Hugo

  • pucc_unknown

    90301 11-OCT 21:35 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90300)
    From: KSCALES To: GREGL

    Hi, Greg -

    > Why in the world did they use ESC = for Bold switch? Seems to me they
    > could have used an extension to the ANSI color change sequence to speficy
    > bold — assuming Bold is not already defined in the PC ANSI sequence –
    > and not have a problem when running true VT52/VT100 emulation. Oh well,
    > such is life.

    Simple — that’s what the CC3 Level 2 windows used. (Truly “backwards
    compatibility”).

    But K-Windows also supports “ESC ( 1 m”, which is the ANSI sequence
    for Select Graphic Rendition: Bold or increased intensity.

    Cheers… / Ken
    ————————————————————————–
    Ken Scales Delphi:KSCALES Internet:kscales [at] delphi [dot] com CIS:74646,2237

  • pucc_unknown

    90309 11-OCT 23:27 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90300)
    From: VAXELF To: GREGL

    Greg,
    Would you pass this along to Boisy. He is caretaker of KWindows. If it
    is a bug, it will get on the bug fix report. If not, then mabey something
    can be done to correct the problem in future release.

    John D.

  • pucc_unknown

    90303 11-OCT 22:44 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90292)
    From: MRGOOD To: WA2EGP

    It happens with Sterm.

    Hugo

  • pucc_unknown

    90307 11-OCT 23:15 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90303)
    From: WA2EGP To: MRGOOD

    OK. I’ll have to check that out. Haven’t used sterm in a long time. Kept
    several versions so maybe I’ll try them all and see if I get the same effect.
    I just don’t remember that happening. As they say in the PC world, “….an
    undocuemented feature!”

  • pucc_unknown

    90308 11-OCT 23:24 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90297)
    From: VAXELF To: DIGIGRADE

    I have had the Zmodem thinge happen to me many times. I have executed a
    ZModem download using KTerm V2.1 and at the end of the download have
    Delphi start another. After terminating the download, Delphi would try and
    start another. I don’t think it is the ZModem on my end. KTerm uses a
    external ZModem routine. I have used the same routine with STerm. then
    too, it doesn’t always happen. I would say mabey 1 time out of 20 Delphi
    Sessions. I have had this to happen on Delphi, finally get out of it,
    close Delphi, dail up another BBS, use the same ZModem with perfect
    results.

    John D.

  • pucc_unknown

    90310 12-OCT 00:19 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90309)
    From: KSCALES To: VAXELF

    > Greg,
    > Would you pass this along to Boisy. He is caretaker of KWindows. If it
    > is a bug, it will get on the bug fix report. If not, then mabey something
    > can be done to correct the problem in future release.

    Hi, John -

    As you may have noted from one of my subsequent messages, this isn’t a
    bug, but rather it is a function that has been included as part of the
    “CC3 Level2 Windows Compatibility”. As you know, K-Windows provides both
    this compatibility and some (limited) VT100/220 support.

    Cheers… / Ken
    ————————————————————————–
    Ken Scales Delphi:KSCALES Internet:kscales [at] delphi [dot] com CIS:74646,2237

  • pucc_unknown

    90311 12-OCT 01:12 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90308)
    From: DIGIGRADE To: VAXELF

    > Delphi start another. After terminating the download, Delphi would try and
    > start another.

    Wierd.

  • pucc_unknown

    90329 15-OCT 18:25 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90308)
    From: DBREEDING To: VAXELF

    > I have had the Zmodem thinge happen to me many times. I have executed a
    > ZModem download using KTerm V2.1 and at the end of the download have
    > Delphi start another. After terminating the download, Delphi would try
    > and start another. I don’t think it is the ZModem on my end.

    This seems a little like what happened to me. A second d/l seemed to be
    attempted.. But when I broke out of “z”, it I got to the “What do you want
    to do” prompt.. Then my username appeared (“No such command” or whatever”)
    Then my password appeared..

    > too, it doesn’t always happen. I would say mabey 1 time out of 20 Delphi
    > Sessions.

    Yeah, you get timeouts… I think this is when the lines get busy..
    However, after the first d/l, (the file seemed to be intact, unzipped with
    no errors), I decided to get the ghostscript forte.. Used “rz”, would get
    bunches of timeouts, but d/l’ed everything.

    The above really seems weird. Don’t know if my computer sent a code to cause
    this or what.

    — David Breeding –
    CompuServe : 72330,2051
    Delphi : DBREEDING

    *** Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 ***
    ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^

  • pucc_unknown

    90634 11-NOV 20:10 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90308)
    From: TIMKIENTZLE To: VAXELF (NR)

    John,
    Re: Delphi seeming to start another download.

    What’s your system like? windowing system? terminal program?

    Just curious about something…
    – Tim Kientzle

  • pucc_unknown

    90313 12-OCT 19:45 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90301)
    From: GREGL To: KSCALES

    Sorry, my mistake. It was sounding like they were going with VT52/VT100/ANSI
    emulation instead of the CoCo emulation codes. I guess they used a combination
    of the two, which does make sense. Now let’s just hope nobody thinks I’m an
    assinine swine and beat me with a club. :-)

    Thanks for the explanation, Ken.

    — Greg

  • pucc_unknown

    90324 15-OCT 15:06 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90272)
    From: TIMKIENTZLE To: DBREEDING

    Yeah. That ones on my list, too. (disabling screen pause). It’s
    not as big a problem with the newer version, since it doesn’t scroll
    the display; it uses a rolling display like `xydown’ used. Nevertheless,
    I’ll try to get the screen pause fixed before the next release.
    (By the end of the month if all goes well.)
    – Tim Kinetlze

  • pucc_unknown

    90353 16-OCT 23:59 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90324)
    From: DBREEDING To: TIMKIENTZLE (NR)

    > Yeah. That ones on my list, too. (disabling screen pause).

    Well, that’s one of the little minor things, but I thought it would be a
    real good final touch.

    > not as big a problem with the newer version, since it doesn’t scroll
    > the display;

    Hmmm.. I thought it did stick on me.. maybe not.. or maybe I was in debug
    mode.

    — David Breeding –
    CompuServe : 72330,2051
    Delphi : DBREEDING

    *** Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 ***
    ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^

  • pucc_unknown

    90640 12-NOV 21:42 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90634)
    From: VAXELF To: TIMKIENTZLE

    Tim,
    MM/1 070 3M memory, Kwindow #52. Terminal program Kterm V2.02 using
    external zmodem SZ #24, RZ #24.
    Kterm opens a overlay window, forks a shell running rz/sz. Kills process
    and closes window when up/down loading is complete.

    John D.

    P.S. Do you happen to know the address of the status registers for /t3 &/t4?

  • pucc_unknown

    90646 13-NOV 10:35 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90640)
    From: NIMITZ To: VAXELF

    John, that chip is at $0e00280.
    bits 6 and 7 of the input port will always return 1. I have no more info
    that that I can find at the moment, and this system is timing me out even when
    I’m typing so I’ll have to check offline…

    David

  • pucc_unknown

    90647 13-NOV 12:04 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90646)
    From: MITHELEN To: VAXELF

    You could always ask Carl Kreider… I believe he still frequents CIS, and that
    his address should be listed in the “ar” archive, or with his CLib archive.

    Paul Jerkatis – SandV BBS (708)352-0948: OS-9 Support
    UUCP: amiserv.xnet.com!vpnet!sandv!mithelen …or… mithelen [at] sandv [dot] chi [dot] il [dot] us
    Internet: MITHELEN [at] Delphi [dot] com

  • pucc_unknown

    90651 13-NOV 21:04 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90647)
    From: VAXELF To: MITHELEN

    I gave up my CIS account a very long time ago. TOOOO expensive for me.

    John D.

  • pucc_unknown

    90652 13-NOV 21:29 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90651)
    From: MITHELEN To: VAXELF

    You can send mail to CIS users from delphi by sending through the internet.
    Address the message to: IN%”########.#####@compuserve.com”
    Substitute the users CIS usernumber for the #’s, using a “.” in place of
    the “,” inthe usernumber.

    Paul

  • pucc_unknown

    90659 14-NOV 19:59 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90652)
    From: VAXELF To: MITHELEN

    Do you know his compuserver number?

    John D.

  • pucc_unknown

    90661 14-NOV 21:31 OSK Applications
    RE: Problems with XY/Z (Re: Msg 90659)
    From: RANDYKWILSON To: VAXELF (NR)

    Carl Kreider 71076,76

    Randy